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Hemi 5.7 Just Rebuit engine, Crank no Start

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3 weeks 6 days ago #79883 by Mars928
Hello guys, thank you for the responses.
On the timing, I set it as follows: #1 cylinder at TDC, crankshaft's keyway at 30° / 2 o'clock position, which places the timing divot on the bottom, camshaft with the divot mark pointing straight up. Chain's single colored link on the camshaft mark and the double colored links stradling the crankshaft divot on either side of the mark. I turned the crank several rotations afterwards, making sure the cam's mark was pointing up cylinder #1 at TDC each time. Unless you spot a flaw in that procedure, it should be ok. As I mentioned, I re-opened the front end and re-did the timing again just to make sure. I hope I did the right procedure.
 I made sure that the valves were going up and down after installing each of the rocker arms. I was aware of the different length between the exhaust and intake pushrods. I also turned each one of them with my fingers and rocked them side to side to make sure they were seated on the lifter after turning the crankshaft a couple of times. But clearly, something went wrong.
The fact that there is no air coming out of the spark plug hole when cranking the engine, points to the valves being closed. 

I am going to pull the covers to see what the valves are doing. I will definitely do a leakdown test to see what I can find out.
Get out the popcorn...Mario

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80559 by Mars928
Well, fellows, it seems the plot thickens. I performed leak-down tests on two more cylinders. Same result, as in out of 90 lbs., I get 10 lbs. pressure on the other gauge. Air is coming out of the throttle body. No compression at all. I then looked at the valves using a borescope and saw that ALL the intake valves were open at the same time. Pretty unbelievable. Now I am thinking, did I install the long pushrods on the intake side?
I decided it was too much and we took the engine out again. Once the intake manifold/plenum was removed I confirmed that not only were all the valves open on bank one, but ALL also on bank two. Can't be possible, right? All at the same time? Also, a valve on each bank looked like it was open about 7/16 to 1/2"!!!
I thought that for sure, I had reversed the pushrod installation.I observed carefully, all valves went up and down as the engine was rotated. I breathed a momentary sigh of relief, thinking I had found the problem. But of course, I doubt that the pushrods could be installed in the wrong place. They were in the right place, short intake, long exhaust. Well then, maybe I was sent the wrong pushrods. I still had the ones I had removed and the length on both were the same between old and new. The pushrods were not bent, no deflection at all. 
Well then maybe I got the wrong lifters. I compared them to the original and they were identical. That's where I stopped. 

Now I am thinking, could it be the wrong cam? The valves? What the heck is going on here? Any ideas guys?
Sorry for the long post. I am so bummed out, to say the least. Cheers!
Mario

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80560 by Noah
If you take the rocker train off, do all the valves close all the way?
Hopefully no valves got bent.
Keep us posted Mario

"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"

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3 weeks 13 hours ago #80620 by juergen.scholl
So you installed new lifters. Did you bleed/compress them befor installation? Do the exhaust valves stay open as well?

An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.

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2 weeks 6 days ago #80672 by Mars928
Hello. Noah, yes, the valves closed completely when the rocker train was removed. I verified with the head removed. As far as I can tell, the valves survived. 
Juergen:
Good point. I did not bleed the lifters. Over the last two weeks, I did a lot of cranking trying to start this thing before doing a compression test and finding out the intake valves were open. Could the lack of lifter bleeding still be an issue at this point? I haven't checked if the exhaust valves are also open. I did a leak-down test and all the air was coming from the throttle body. I could not detect any air coming out of the exhaust.
I have bank one head removed; I will check the exhaust valves on the other head. I will remove the bank one lifters and bleed them. I will re-install the rocker arms and see what happens. That is the least I can do. 
If you guys have any other suggestions, please let me know.
Thank you for chiming in.
Mario

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2 weeks 4 minutes ago #81806 by Mars928
Well, Gents, back again. So, I removed the engine, took off the heads to get to the lifters to bleed them. I tried pushing on the lifters while still in the engine with a push rod to see how much "give" they had.    Some had about 1/4" or so and others had none. All of the lifters had oil, some more than others. I thought I had the issue solved. NOT.
I put the heads and rocker arms back on but the intake valves are all open still. One at least 1/2". The headers are mounted so I don't know about the exhaust valves but it seems that is a moot point, given the intake valves issue.

The cam shaft is the last thing to check. A major dissasembly, unfortunately.

What else could I do?

Thanks
Mario

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1 week 6 days ago #81818 by Tyler
I saw that you checked earlier, but are you certain you have the pushrods in the correct locations? I grabbed this from service info for your truck:

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1 week 6 days ago #81836 by Mars928
Tyler, thanks for chiming in. That retainer sure would be sweet to have. I did manage to install and check that the pushrods were seated properly.

I have been mulling something else. Up to this point, I have not considered the valve height to be the problem, although that certainly could be. I had the heads done (seats replaced, new valves, guides, seals, springs, etc.) at a local shop with a very good reputation, so I trusted their expertise. At this point, I am having my doubts.  Just maybe.

 I have just now become aware that the difference in installed height between the early 5.7 and the later Eagle 5.7 is .20". I will check tomorrow what the height of the spring in the closed position is.  As far as I found out, the early engine's valve height should be 1.80 and the newer ones 2.0" high. It's possible that .20" difference (if it's there) could be the problem. I will check the manual for reference to be sure.

So, the hunt for a solution grinds on.

Mario

 

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1 week 5 days ago #82123 by Mars928
Well guys I will be...
The height of the installed springs is 2". The specs call for a 1.81" height. I admit I should have checked that myself. Nevertheless, I got royally screwed by the machine shop. They have been in business 50 years, the ultimate pros. NOT! This is what I get for trusting the so-called pros.
I will see what they have to say.
Looking at the pictures of the intake valves I took with the rocker arms installed, the valves that should have been closed look like they were open about .20".
Seems to me the mystery has been solved. Now the grind to put it all back together properly.
I will let you know how it turns out in about 2 weeks.
To those of you who contributed advice:
Thank you
Mario

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