Crazy Mopar Troubles
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These guys are supposed to be "technicians",
You're correct, they are just technicians. They are not diagnosticians. Technicians replace parts, diagnosticians find the reason a part needs to be replaced.
IMO, you have a wiring problem which is one thing technicians hate to deal with. It's time consuming and pain staking. If it was my car, I would have it in my garage where I could systematically go through the wiring looking for contact points, heat and stress points, corrosion in connectors even loose or bent pins, male and female. Loosing conductivity with the CAN buss's is what causing the EVIC to go crazy. Ground wires are of major concern. Loose, corroded, stressed.
"an open mind let's knowledge flow in and wisdom flow out for a man who has neither never listens to those who have both".
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- juergen.scholl
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Otherwise you need to pay someone to do this for you. As you describe the problem as fairly repeatable at this time it shouldn´t take days to figure it out, imo. The fee you payed should have been good for a 4 or 5 hours of diagnostics, what exactly has been done in this time and are there more outcomes apart from thinking an IPM change may be the remedy?
An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.
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At this point, don't waste your time and money someplace that is going to throw stuff at it and take your money. I hate to say this, but their is no such thing as "customer service" anymore. If you don't have to drive it, put it somewhere to do some further testing. Maybe it's something you can fix and if it is- I guarantee you'll save money. Hope you get it fixed.
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his"
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Does anyone know how I can reach Scanner Danner himself??? PA is not that far from MD so I was hoping to transport my car to PA and ask Paul if he could please, please, please fix or at least just diagnose my car. If not Paul then maybe take it to his brothers shop for diagnosing or maybe Paul could use my car as a class assignment for his students. At least then I would know that my vehicle was diagnosed intelligently and that all troubleshooting possibilities were considered before a solution or replacement part was considered.
If someone has a connection to Paul Danner or his brothers shop can you please have one of them contact me through the Scanner Danner site please.
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As far as fancy equipment goes, you dont need that for your basic troubleshooting. Sure, a nice scope would be great to have someday. What you need is some basic items. Here's a couple that I would recommend-
1. Scanner Danner "Engine Performance Diagnostics" book
2. Digital Multimeter
3. Computer safe test light
4. Spark tester
5. Compression tester
6. Vaccuum gauge
With the above items as the basics, you can do most troubleshooting with. I have the Scanner Danner book and I also watch the videos and take notes. All of the notes I have gets typed and put into a "go-to" reference binder. I hope you get the issue fixed and keep us up to date on what you find.
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his"
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This clearly isn't a cut and dry issue. I'm sure it didn't sit idle for 4 months at a shop until they were satisfied it had collected enough dust.
Maybe the ignition switch was fired from the parts cannon, maybe they had some test results that pointed to the switch being possibly faulty.
Without knowing what tests are being performed at these shops or why they want to replace what parts they want to replace, it's hard to say that they are not doing their due diligence.
The fact is that sometimes it's hard to condemn a module (and your cluster is a module). You can only gather so much evidence and make a call based on what you see.
I'm not saying they are right, and I'm not saying they are wrong, but that's the point. I know you're frustrated and without your car, but as you realize (and probably appreciate now more than ever), electronic diagnostics is not easy, or everyone would be doing it. Even the best diagnostic shops will let a couple slip by them. The You Tube "celebrity" technicians like Scanner Danner, SMA, and Bernie Thompson all have made bad calls and will do so again.
As a professional technician who takes pride in my work and devotes a large portion of my time training and researching, the only thing more frustrating than having a hard time finding a problem is getting high roaded by someone with a thimble full of knowledge and perfect hindsight.
"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"
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Second involves the TIPM. Dodge owners have found the TIPM prone to corrosion. The fix is to remove the unit, inspect for corrosion and clean all the terminals.
In both cases, this resolved problems your car displays which was the same symptoms the DIYers had with their Magnums and Dodges.
"an open mind let's knowledge flow in and wisdom flow out for a man who has neither never listens to those who have both".
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Curious to see if either one is the case with the OP
"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"
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- juergen.scholl
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Any news on this, did you check what vegasjak mentioned?
An expert is someone who knows each time more on each time less, until he finally knows absolutely everything about absolutely nothing.
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Problem With Car Again: It starts up and runs perfectly fine for about a good (15) minutes or until it gets warmed up and then... 1. The chime starts. 2. The traction control & ESP/BAS lights come on. 3.The engine light. 4. Next the lightning bolt, battery, ABS, brake and oil lights, flash off/on and also all (5) gear selections highlight too (PRND & Manual Gear). 5. The speedometer goes dead, the tach and the temperature dials move up/down at will.
FYI: I do have a (30) second video on my phone of the EVIC in need of an EXORCISM, but I don't know how or if I can post it, but I'll try!
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As mentioned he does make road trips and is interested in crazy troubles.
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So now I have a broken radio to add to the list of things I need fixed thanks to this crappy shop. I described my problem in detail and showed them a video I had of the EVIC lighting up like crazy and I was assured that their electronics guy was the best in the business and this was nothing he couldn't handle... RIGHT!
So at this point I'm now assembling the tools that I believe I might need to try and diagnose the problem myself. I'm not sure at all about anything I'm doing meaning the tools I need or the steps to track down the problem, but I'm hoping that with a little help from you guy here on the site, I'll be able to make it happen. So far I've ordered the Autel MS906BT scanner, the Autel MP408 maxiscope (hopefully these two play nice together as some people have said you can use the maxiscope with the MS906BT by updating the program and others say it won't work you need a hire model Autel scanner). I've also acquired an OTC Breakout Box and an Incandescent test light.
Any suggestions as to what other tools I might need are greatly welcomed. I've scoured the internet and YT searching for a problem fix like mine, but no luck. All I can find are CAN BUS (no comm/no starts), but my car starts and runs just until around the 15 minute mark and then I experience multiple No Comm codes. I'm thinking that it might have something to do with a heat related issue like the fan turning on when the car reaches normal temp or maybe a fan sensor or relay that's grounding out the communication on that CAN Line. Every time I have an problem the fan is whirling very loudly like it's out of control, but I don't ever see any codes relating to the fan.
Who has the best detailed wiring diagrams, anyone know??? I'm thinking either Mitchell or All Data, but I really need to see if the codes/lights I have are all on the same CAN Line which might mean I could be on to something. If this is not the case, I might have to start considering that I might have a bad PCM even though I've been told by multiple shops that it's NOT the PCM. Also, the manufacture does not make my PCM anymore so I'm REALLY hoping that's not the problem.
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I use Alldata DIY information and have a yearly subscription to one of my cars. The other older ones I have factory paper manuals for. You definitely need wiring diagrams if you are going to have a hope of figuring this out. The theory of operation for the various components and the code setting criteria is also nice to have. There is a set of factory service manuals for your car on Ebay for $199 or make an offer. Five book set.
Having a real scan tool will probably give you a better idea on what codes you are getting and may show some that your radio could not access. With all of the communication codes you are getting, it sounds like some module on that CAN line is pulling the rest down. Once you have access to a wiring diagram, you can see if all of the module that are showing communication errors are on the same CAN line.
If you are not already, I would subscribe to Paul's premium channel. It's the best $11 a month you can spend on information that can potentially help you fix this issue. I have learned a ton just from his book and premium channel.
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As for now, I'm just reading the scanner instruction manual to try and get it all setup. I registered it yesterday then updated it, now I'm just trying to figure out how to use it, how to hook the scope to it and how to connect the scope to the probes. The scope came with NO instructions (thanks Autel), but I found some online so I have to print off the instruction manual when I get some more printer paper and ink. I'm not sure if I need to register maxiscope with Autel too like the scanner...? After I figure out how to hookup and use the equipment, I'll probably go on AllData and Mitchell and print off the CAN BUS wiring diagram for my car from both and see if I can see some sort of connection between the CAN line and the codes I'm getting. Also, I wanna see if there's a fan module or relay that might be on the CAN line that's causing the problem because it seems like the car only acts up after the engine gets warm and the fan turns on (about 15 min of driving).
Thanks again for your help!
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