No crank

Tyler wrote: Don't thank me too soon, I realized I gave you the wrong address :oops: Try wrenchturnsyou@gmail.com. Man I suck at this tonight!

Any help is much appreciated :lol: I have just resent it

Got it. Turns out I can't make the image uploader work, either, so I'm using a freebie for now. Sorry for the struggle!

postimg.org/image/e8so5ktkx

Looking at OE Euro-style diagrams is always a trip for me. If I'm looking at this right, then the crank relay is the bottom relay in the #4 component (underhood fuse box?). This relay switches power from fuse #8 to the starter solenoid, which I think is component #2.

The control side of the relay gets power from (what I think) is the main relay, right above the crank relay. The other side of the relay control is grounded directly by the underhood fuse box.

Looking back at previous posts, you said that you got 12V on the solenoid wire with fuse #8 out? No offense meant, but are you positive about that? Because that really doesn't bode well for the internals of the fuse box, as I think you said that the relay is integral to the box, and not sold separately.

No its fine, thank you for your time!
What you have said there describing all the components sounds good, took me a while to try figure everything out but I can see the path it makes, that's why when I seen that voltage on the wire when the ignition was turned the run position I was confused, so I removed fuse 8 but for some strange reason it still had just under 12v and I couldn't work out how it was getting it but yes I'm pretty sure that it had that voltage when I checked it.

The fuse box was changed not too long ago because water was getting into it(window wipers etc would randomly come on and not switch off) but when I change them around the exact same thing is happening? (Clicking relay and no crank)

Could this possibly be a wiring problem between the bsi and the engine fusebox?

I am also in the voltage drop camp, the clicking relay points me in that direction. I think if it was the imobiliser or key transponder issue it would just give a single click if any.
I always found French electrical systems were more prone than most to bad conections.

I would try getting acess to the ignition switch and by-pass testing and voltage drop testing there.

Yeah I agree with that aswell, I have tested to make sure that the car is recognising that the key chip is there by turning the ignition on then off then opening the door with the key still in and it started beeping so I think the key chip is fine.
This is my first car and all I have had is electrical problems with it, due to water getting into places and bad connections and stuff

I have just tried that there. There are 3 wires which join up at the ignition switch, I got a small bit of electrical wire and from the wire with the 12v I bridged it across to one of the other 2 and the dash lights, stereo etc came on, I then done the same with the other wire and nothing happened only a clciking of a relay in the under dash fusebox. I also had my multi meter attached and there was no voltage drop. Have I done this correct?

Awww, I can't see it, can you? Sounds like you tested the ignition switch circuit correct.
Looks like there could be the potential for a voltage drop at pin 1 of the fuse box, which looks like the power feed for the control side of the relay. Or pin 1 of the "what's-it-module" at the top of the diagram, because that feeds power to the fuse that powers the control side fuse.
Just because pin 9 is the only large gauge wire that goes into the fuse box that doesn't appear to be attached to a power source, I'm thinking it's a ground, and also subject to voltage drop.
pin 2 looks like the power output to the starter motor from the relay when energized. A voltage drop here I don't think would cause the clicking relay symptom you describe. Applying power her should get the starter to crank. Of course the fuse box itself is suspect. I've seen guy's manipulate or flex GM power distribution boxes to find internal faults. I don't know if lightly striking this box is an option in this case, as I have never seen one.
You could pull fuse F13 and inspect the terminals for corrosion. I think that given the history of water intrusion, there's going to be some sort of corroded resistance.
Hope this helps you out some!

Noah wrote:
Awww, I can't see it, can you? Sounds like you tested the ignition switch circuit correct.
Looks like there could be the potential for a voltage drop at pin 1 of the fuse box, which looks like the power feed for the control side of the relay. Or pin 1 of the "what's-it-module" at the top of the diagram, because that feeds power to the fuse that powers the control side fuse.
Just because pin 9 is the only large gauge wire that goes into the fuse box that doesn't appear to be attached to a power source, I'm thinking it's a ground, and also subject to voltage drop.
pin 2 looks like the power output to the starter motor from the relay when energized. A voltage drop here I don't think would cause the clicking relay symptom you describe. Applying power her should get the starter to crank. Of course the fuse box itself is suspect. I've seen guy's manipulate or flex GM power distribution boxes to find internal faults. I don't know if lightly striking this box is an option in this case, as I have never seen one.
You could pull fuse F13 and inspect the terminals for corrosion. I think that given the history of water intrusion, there's going to be some sort of corroded resistance.
Hope this helps you out some!

I have tested pin 1 on the fusebox and there is definitely something wrong internally, I removed fuse 8 and fuse 12 but pin 2 is getting a constant 11v, according to the diagram there should be no way that pin should be getting anything at all (unless fuses are back in and key is turned to the start position) if I'm reading it correct?

Could anything else be causing this to happen apart from the fusebox just being bad?

That post helped me a lot to understand it all thank you!

A few years back I heard story about a Peugeot 307 fuse box I have no means of verifying it and any event it was a petrol not a diesel model. The owner was old school and decided that the unused fuse postions in the fuse box that were intended only for the diesel model would be ideal for holding spare fuses so he promptly filled them with blade fuses. The result was an assorted collection of weird electrical symptoms. The cure was to remove the offending fuses and a specific procedure to reboot the body control system.

I did a bit of hunting around the web this morning and found some clues that might be relavent on the BBS Reman webisite which is a fairly reputable source. If at any time the battery is disconnected (I would assume this would also apply to changing the fuse box ) the body control module (Peugeot call it the BSI) requires rebooting exactly following the procedure in this link.

www.bba-reman.com/gb/content.aspx?conten...body_control_failure

Andy.MacFadyen wrote: I did a bit of hunting around the web this morning and found some clues that might be relavent on the BBS Reman webisite which is a fairly reputable source. If at any time the battery is disconnected (I would assume this would also apply to changing the fuse box ) the body control module (Peugeot call it the BSI) requires rebooting exactly following the procedure in this link.

www.bba-reman.com/gb/content.aspx?conten...body_control_failure

Thank you for having a look I have heard about rebooting the bsi but when I seen about what happens if done incorrect I didn't want to try it but I will try this as soon as and hopefully it changes something I will let you know how it goes

I can have a look on Carweb for a wiring diagram for you if you post or PM your reg & VIN
Also you can register on the peugeot website as an independent operator for info.
Once registers you can buy all the info you need public.servicebox.peugeot.com/pages/index.jsp
Added a generic 207 DV4 starter diagram for you.
PSF1 - Engine fusebox
BSI1 - BSI
1010 - Starter
1020 - Alternator
0004 - Instruments
HTH
Doc...

Doc wrote: I can have a look on Carweb for a wiring diagram for you if you post or PM your reg & VIN
Also you can register on the peugeot website as an independent operator for info.
Once registers you can buy all the info you need public.servicebox.peugeot.com/pages/index.jsp
Added a generic 207 DV4 starter diagram for you.
PSF1 - Engine fusebox
BSI1 - BSI
1010 - Starter
1020 - Alternator
0004 - Instruments
HTH
Doc...

Thank you for finding this for me! I am still wondering of I have a problem within my fuse box as when I take out fuse 8 the pin that connects the wire which runs down to the starter still gets 11v, also fuse 13 is getting a constant 12v when the ignition is switched on when it is only meant to be getting this voltage when the key is then turned to the start position, could anything else be causing this before I go any buy a new fuse box? Also with fuse 13 and fuse 8 the pin is still getting about 11v but at the end of the wire at the solenoid the reading is 0 when attached?

I wouldn't worry about F13 at the moment.
Is the voltage at pin 2 enough to light a test lamp connected to GND with F8 removed?
When key is turned to start measure the voltage at Pin 2 back-probed (F8 fitted)
As a double check, if you have an inductive Amp clamp then test for current flow on 100 - Pin 2 on cranking.
207 have issues with the loom running from engine fuse box, it is well worth giving the wires a good tug and visual inspection as you may have a short to power back feeding up the loom.
Hope this helps (HTH)
Doc...

PS, double check your engine GND and body GND - there should be two separate body GND points just behind the L/H headlamp, they are normally covered in grey sealer but water gets underneath the sealer and corrodes the grounds.

I like where Doc is going with this. Having 11V on pin 2 with fuse #8 out is screaming 'resistive short' to me. The voltage going to zero with the solenoid wire connected reinforces this. Looking at the pin numbers for the connector at PSF1, I see pins 4 and 5 getting fused battery power at all times. Wondering about corrosion between those pins and pin 2.

Mark, didn't you say you had this same symptom with both this fuse box and the old fuse box? If that's the case, then I'd say you don't need a fuse box at the moment. We may get there later, but I'd like to hear the results of Doc's suggested testing first.

Unfortunately I have lost my test light and can't seem to find it anywhere, I do have a multi meter and the pin shows a constant 11.6v when the key is turned to the on run position and then stays like that with the key off until the car goes to sleep that's when it drops back down to 0v. I reconnected the wire and back probed it and turned the key to the start position and again it was 0v. There are 2 different parts to the fuse box, underneath the fuse box there is a separate part which has a few larger fuses which are mf4 and mf5 and a few others, but there aren't wires that join then together, I have tried to put a picture on but the file is too big, I could email it if needed and could help. Is there anything else I could try?

Would my best bet be to get a diagnostic machine onto the car?

I don't think a scanner is going to help you here Mark unless there are circuit faults stored for engine bay components that run through the same loom.
remove the connector in the fusebox and look carefully for any signs of corrosion or water ingress in the connectors.
Then reconnect the connector.
Put your voltmeter on battery ground and measure voltage on pin 2 (backprobed) with someone holding the key in the start position.
As they are doing this run your hand down the loom and stress the loom, paying attention to anywhere the loom contacts metal, or as Paul says is exposed to heat or vibration.
I am sure you are going to find a wiring fault in that loom.
Hope this helps.

Hi Mark,
just stumbled across this, I have seen a few pugs with non start after being parked up. The voltage drop looks to be a contender, however I see many which just forget the key code to release the ecu and bsi. Do you get the chime when key is in the ignition and drivers door open?
If I have missed this I apologise for asking.

Just read that you have the chime.
the bsi which is probably comms2000 can be flakey to say the least. Personally I would connect a scan tool preferably lexia so I could look at the in put and output signals being generated.

Doc wrote: I don't think a scanner is going to help you here Mark unless there are circuit faults stored for engine bay components that run through the same loom.
remove the connector in the fusebox and look carefully for any signs of corrosion or water ingress in the connectors.
Then reconnect the connector.
Put your voltmeter on battery ground and measure voltage on pin 2 (backprobed) with someone holding the key in the start position.
As they are doing this run your hand down the loom and stress the loom, paying attention to anywhere the loom contacts metal, or as Paul says is exposed to heat or vibration.
I am sure you are going to find a wiring fault in that loom.
Hope this helps.

So I have done what you suggested here and nothing changed so I removed the battery and pulled on the loom a bit and moved it around a bit, I couldn't see any wires that were damaged at all or burnt out, so after a while I gave up looking and put the battery back and hooked it up again and soon as it was connected back up there was just a slow clicking noise coming from the fusebox, opened the passengers door where the other fusebox was and there was a relay clicking in there aswell. Dash had no power at all when key was turned and this clicking just carried on. When I touched the positive terminal on the batter it was getting pretty warm. Another thing I done before all this was got my multi meter and put the negative pin in the battery negative and the other one on a solid metal bit on the engine, I assumed the reading I should have got when the key was turned was 0v but I was getting 0.57v+ does this mean a bad ground? Sorry for all the writing

"When I touched the positive terminal on the battery it was getting pretty warm."

Also 0.57v is too much betweem the engine block and battery negative is too much, you have a bad engine ground.
All the main connections to the battery need removed and cleaned and the main earth cable needs checked and the connections cleaned at the engine block, body and battery .