[SOLVED] 2012 Kia Forte Koup P0365 and P0079

Alright so I'll try to be as descriptive as possible and give as much background info on the vehicle as possible. It's been a while since I needed some real help but this vehicle has stumped me. It's throwing a P0365 Camshaft Position Sensor "B" Circuit Malfunction Bank 1 and a P0079 Exhaust Valve Control Solenoid Circuit Low Bank 1.

I purchased the car a couple days ago and usually hook my scanner up whether there is a light on or not to see pending codes or if there's anything fishy going on but unfortunately didn't in this situation. I get home and was thinking the car felt sluggish unless it was high in the revs. It's a 6 speed manual trans and I was having to drop it into 3rd to get any real power out of it ESPECIALLY going up sleight inclines. I've got a Modis Edge so I hook it up and it's code central. Upon removing the cluster I find out the previous owner removed the check engine light (a part kia says is unserviceable and wanted me to get a new cluster, it's a load of bull. Swapped the oil light and check engine to make sure the circuit worked and low and behold it does. Ordered a used cluster for parts and going to swap the light). Once I get that straight there's codes from airbags to TPMS. This is the original scan on the vehicle, Original and this is the most current scan Most Current . There was so much disconnected or improperly seated connectors, I'm not for certain what was going on. My chilton manual was giving me information on a 2.4 engine that had two Oil Control Valves and two Cam Sensors but for the life of me I couldn't find a second sensor for either one. After posting on some kia forums and getting told the previous owner snapped the sensor off in the head and that's why I couldn't find the sensors (clearly didn't happen, using an inspection mirror you can see it's a cast head) I realized that wasn't the most dependable line of information. I go to Kia to reference their information and find out they made 3 engines for my Forte. a 2.0 turbo, 2.4 with CVVT, and 2.4 with dual CVVT. I apparently got the uncommon CVVT one. Here is a picture of the back of the head showing nothing broken off.

https://imgur.com/a/zHAa8fg

https://imgur.com/a/aGwsafJ

I paid for the manual for my vehicle through All Data and it gave a lot more information than my chilton, both manuals testing of the cam sensor is similar and now that a new sensor is installed it's reading the pulses correctly via the built in scope on the modis. I let my buddy borrow my multimeter and my modis ohms meter isn't working for some reason so I'll have to wait a day or so to test the resistance of the OCV, but in the mean time I'm seeing I can supply a 12v power source using my power probe to see if the OCV is opening and closing properly.

Now that I have the valve cover off I can see some pry marks on the end of the cam on the chain side, so I'm thinking someone tried to figure out this problem before and said screw it and removed the bulb.

https://imgur.com/a/sg0gV1D


At a "quick" glance at the timing marks without setting it to TDC (fixing to, I ran out of time before having to take the wife to work in a separate vehicle) it looks as the timing marks aren't correctly aligned for the cams. Now I know this would cause a sluggish, low power feeling but I wouldn't think it would throw the codes given, but would think it would throw a cam/crank sensor correlation code instead. The vehicle is also holding a steady, healthy idle with no backfiring. It does feel like it is bogging down when you first take off though (have to give it way more gas than expected to get it to move).

I can keep everyone updated as things progress but just to recap since this was A LOT of information, It's throwing a P0365 Camshaft Position Sensor "B" Circuit Malfunction Bank 1 and a P0079 Exhaust Valve Control Solenoid Circuit Low Bank 1. Requires more gas than expected to initially take off, doesn't handle hills well without downshifting to 3rd and getting the revs up.

This is my first kia I've ever worked on and she's set up differently than I'm used to so if anyone has had a similar experience with this type of vehicle I'd love to hear the outcome, or be pointed in the right direction. Here in an hour or so I'm going to go out and set the engine to TDC and verify timing. Thanks for taking the time to read the post for those that have made it this far.

I made it to the end! :silly: But really, your code scans and testing info are appreciated.

Any circuit tests done on the OCV wiring? Aside from powering the solenoid with a PP. If you have a test light, you could probably command the solenoid with the Modis while (gently) probing the correct female pin with the test light. That'd prove out wiring and PCM.

Does AllData tell you what the set criteria is for the P0365? You may have looked already - mostly trying to tell if it's a genuine circuit issue, or a timing issue like you talked about.

Tyler wrote: I made it to the end! :silly: But really, your code scans and testing info are appreciated.

Any circuit tests done on the OCV wiring? Aside from powering the solenoid with a PP. If you have a test light, you could probably command the solenoid with the Modis while (gently) probing the correct female pin with the test light. That'd prove out wiring and PCM.

Does AllData tell you what the set criteria is for the P0365? You may have looked already - mostly trying to tell if it's a genuine circuit issue, or a timing issue like you talked about.

I appreciate you taking the time to read my essay xD I haven't gone back out to the vehicle yet but if I remember correctly I commanded the solenoid open and closed when I very first hooked the scanner up and heard a click, will verify when I get a chance to head out. I'm just thinking the two are linked because both the sensor and solenoid are located on the same camshaft. Just checked all data again and it states "The PCM monitors the exhaust camshaft sensor signal transition position which must change only once per crankshaft revolution. If no camshaft signal is detected while crankshaft signal is detected, the PCM sets DTC P0365."

Now reading on I found a line that I seemed to of overlooked.


Engine Control
P0365 Camshaft Position Sensor B Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1) - Scantool Diagnostics

Monitor DTC Status

Clear the DTC with GDS.
Operate the vehicle within the following conditions: - Engine run time at idle over 10 minutes
- Engine Oil Temp. is between 20°C(68°F) and 110°C(230°F)
Ignition"ON" & Engine"OFF"
Using a GDS, monitor DTC
Go to applicable troubleshooting procedure for the following conditions - If any DTCs related to OCV(P0011) are stored, do ALL REPAIRS associated with those codes before proceeding with this troubleshooting procedure.

The alldata is showing similar to my chilton in the way that all of its diagrams assume I have two OCV and Cam sensors, and they refer to the OCV as an Oil Control Valve in some text, but a Exhaust Control Valve in others. The diagrams for both sensors are in fact the OCV located on the intake camshaft side of the head (or both intake and exhaust side rather, but I only have one). Kia made me really scratch my head reading the manual until the rep told me about the 3 separate manufactured engines. Especially since I have a harness for the non existent OCV for the exhaust side.

Mjdavis1994 wrote: Especially since I have a harness for the non existent OCV for the exhaust side.

I think I missed this part earlier. :huh: You're saying there's a two wire harness hanging around where the exhaust OCV would normally be on a dual CVVT engine?

Because if so, someone swapped a CVVT engine into a car that had Dual CVVT. :silly: No wonder the PCM isn't happy.

Mjdavis1994 wrote: Especially since I have a harness for the non existent OCV for the exhaust side.

The plot thickens!
I think Tyler is right.

Noah wrote: The plot thickens!
I think Tyler is right.

Man I hope not. :lol:

I wonder if the VIN would tell us specifically which engine this thing is supposed to have?

Actually yes, if you punch it into all data it should!
If the op wants to post the VIN I'll give it a shot

Vin :KNAFW6A31C5471504

I can’t for the life of me find the engine data plate to match it to my vin and searched all data, all I could find was the 2.0 and 2.4. I’ll be in the area of the dealer shortly and am gonna stop in and see if one of the guys there can look up whether it factory came Dual cVVT or CVVT.

Any luck at the dealer?

I tried putting your VIN into my Modis Ultra for giggles. Just tells me two engine options, VIN 2 or 3. Both list as CVVT, no distinction on Dual.

Took a shot in the dark and asked the Snappy Troubleshooter. Got this:



So, if I'm reading this right, the ULEV has intake CVVT only. SULEV has Dual CVVT.

What does your underhood emissions label say? :silly:

Alright so according to the dealer they have two diagrams for the 2.4. One has two cam sensors as well as two oil control valves, and one has just one OCV and one cam sensor. The data plate was hard to read so I couldn't get the numbers for the dealer to 100% tell me if I have the original engine. I'll be cleaning it tonight to get the vin and call back tomorrow to verify. The OCV was reading an incorrect resistance but was operating when commanded by the modis to open and close, so per the manual I ordered a new one and it should be here tomorrow. The passenger seat sensor came in today so I will be installing that today. I pulled the spark plugs and the ceramic is burnt pretty bad so I'm guessing since this car was obviously limped along with no real professional maintenance they overtightened it and cracked the inside of all 4 spark plugs, which could also explain the sluggish feeling. So to recap::

1.Timing verified and is spot on.



2. Cam sensor wasn't receiving a signal, replaced and is now receiving a signal.
3. OCV resistance was out of spec, 8.9 resistance when the book calls for 6.9-7.9 ohm. Ordered and should be here tomorrow.
4. The passenger seat weight sensor was bad, part received and will be installed today.
5. Purchased a serpentine belt because this one was tearing apart. Hopefully will be installed today.
6. Check engine light bulb swapped to verify circuit integrity and is good.
7. Multiple connectors from airbags were disconnected, now they're connected again.
8. Dealer has no idea why I have a second OCV connector, will verify original engine is installed by tomorrow evening.
9. Spark plugs are burnt and are being replaced today.


All in all this vehicle was taken care of poorly from a self proclaimed mechanic. I'm hoping this OCV finishes off this string of electrical issues, because if it hasn't I'm running into a brick wall. Once it's fixed up I'd like to keep it and do some tasteful modifications, I'd never seen the forte koup before and very much like the body style. The trick is getting to where the aesthetics is my focus :lol:

Here's the car




EDIT::: Here's the under hood emissions sticker. It's factory ULEV. Maybe instead of troubleshooting the OCV someone replaced the harness? I'm not for certain what this dude was thinking that was working on this before.





Edit#2 took the intake inlet tube off to get more space to try to find the engine data plate, and found a completely black filter with so much gunk built up.

Sorry for the late reply, I wasnt getting email notifications on this thread...
Vin wasn't exactly as telling as I had hoped, so I jumped on car-part.com to see what engines they offer:


The wiring diagram however shows the pull control valves, and for #2 says "except 2.0 ulev"



So it looks like that harness pigtail would be on any car that didn't have the ulev 2.0, but that doesn't explain why there's no valve to connect too, unless it somehow got a 2.0 engine? I don't know if it's even possible though, I'm not very familiar with that generation Kia architecture

Well lah-dee-dah, look at Noah with his fancy car part app! :silly:

So do we think this car is supposed to have a 2.4L Dual CVVT, and got a 2.0 ULEV at some point?

Mjdavis1994, do you see witness marks on motor mount fasteners, or transmission bellhousing bolts?

@Noah what I wanna know is why kia thought it was a good idea to release so many different 2.4 and 2.0 engines for the same platform I looked up the 2.0 engine via youtube and the intake manifold is different but that seems to be it. I saw some parts diagrams and unless the part numbers were wrong it looks like all the parts for the head side of the 2.4 and 2.0 are the same including the head gasket. If when I get the data plate the numbers match I'll be wondering if someone changed the head.

@Tyler According to emissions it's supposed to be ULEV and it's definitely supposed to have a 2.4 in it. Just checked for witness marks on the motor mount bolts and bell housing bolts and didn't see anything obvious.

Alright so update: Took a minute to find the engine data plate because it was so covered in buildup the numbers weren't visable. After lots of cleaning and editing the picture to see the numbers better, here's what we have. G4KD9H532569 is the engine number of what is in the vehicle which according to alldata is a 2.0 1998 CC. I called KIA and low and behold the correct engine number is G4KEBH534756, the 2.4. So this is in fact the incorrect engine I'm mad at the guy for covering it up (even put the 2.4 cover back on top of the engine) but I'm even more mad at myself for not hooking up the code scanner before purchasing the vehicle. Once I verify it has the original ECM for a 2.4, I'll be on the hunt for a 2.4 for this car. This is going to be pretty hard considering I live in Hawaii. :S I appreciate the help guys. I'm thinking I may be able to find a used ECM for a 2.0 for cheap so I can get rid of this check engine light. It wont pass safety with a check engine light here no matter what it is for.

Not cool. Seems like the original engine popped, and someone didn't do their homework during the swap. Do you have no recourse with the seller? Sounds like they owe you an engine, or your money back.

I'm really sorry to hear this is where we ended up. But hey, at least you know now? :silly: Thank you for posting the pictures from AllData and your engine, as well. I had no idea how Kia engine codes worked out, but now I know for the future.

Yeah I called the seller and explained what I found and he got quiet. I asked where the original engine is so I can rebuild it and he kept saying "I purchased it like that I didn't swap it". I was like even if you didn't do the swap you sold it stating there were no issues, which was clearly a lie. I told him to contact the original seller if he supposedly didn't do the swap and I'm giving him 48 hours to either come up with the engine or someone claiming to of replaced the engine. After that I'm going to my JAG office and we'll see what they say. I called the dealership and I can get just the longblock to the tune of 4680$. All the junk yards I've called don't have the engine and a lot of the online stores wont ship it to Hawaii.

No worries on the engine codes, I learned something new with this vehicle as well :silly:

hey man, was you able to find 2.0 ECU? did it help.
as I have "reverse" case
I have kia forte 2010 2.0 (based on VIN).
car is from USA was exported to me (I live in Ukraine)
once received we started it and engine was knocking + check engine lights...
we decide to fix and and figured out that the engine is G4KC and supposed to be G4KD.
G4KC has dual CVVT and the one that suppose to be is 100% as you have.
I've got used G4KD installed, car started all good, however was getting same PO365 and P0079 errors.
I've also was thinking that the issue is with ECU (might be reprogramed once G4KC installed, both use same Sim2k-141 ECU).
So I've got one more from Kia Forte 2010 2.0, however same errors.

So I'm thinking that the issues could be caused by wire harness, as ECU sees that there is wiring to the 2nd CVVT
Please advise if last idea make any sense?