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Returnless fuel system. No fuel rail pressure sensor??

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7 years 2 weeks ago - 7 years 2 weeks ago #27929 by benphillipstn
2011 ford transit connect 2.0 gasoline

Vehicle has negative long term fuel trim around -11% at idle.

Vehicle has a code for fuel tank pressure sensor. Looking at the scan tool the fuel tank pressure sensor value never changes.

I thought the fuel tank pressure sensor was only for EVAP. I decided to took at the MAF to explain the negative fuel trim. The IAT and MAF flow were slightly high. I cleaned the MAF and the numbers barely changed. LTFT Fuel still -11%.

I decided to check the fuel pressure. No schrader valve. I cound not find a fuel rail pressure or fuel pump duty cycle with my scan tool.

Searching for parts I cannot find a fuel rail pressure sensor.

EDIT: I found this: "Some returnless modules also feature a fuel tank pressure sensor, which monitors pressure for the on-board EVAP system self-diagnostics, as well as serves as input for the PCM to vary fuel pump speed." ( www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resource...s-evap-fuctionality/ )

I didn't know the PCM used the fuel tank pressure sensor to control the fuel pump duty cycle.
Last edit: 7 years 2 weeks ago by benphillipstn.

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7 years 2 weeks ago - 7 years 2 weeks ago #27933 by Andy.MacFadyen
Replied by Andy.MacFadyen on topic Returnless fuel system. No fuel rail pressure sensor??
Where I am we haven't had gasoline engined Transits for about 20 years, so this is just speculation as I can't find any data. I replaced the sensor on a 2009 Focus the sensor was right a the middle of exhaust side in the middle between cylinders 2 & 3 --- held on by two M6 Torx bolts

However I would want to compare the upstream and downstream 02 sensor outputs first, driving them rich and lean to be 100% sure the upstream wasn't teslling porkies.

" We're trying to plug a hole in the universe, what are you doing ?. "
(Walter Bishop Fringe TV show)



Last edit: 7 years 2 weeks ago by Andy.MacFadyen.

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7 years 2 weeks ago #27945 by ScannerDanner
Replied by ScannerDanner on topic Returnless fuel system. No fuel rail pressure sensor??
That is a generic description you found on the fuel tank pressure sensor. I've never, not once had a fuel tank pressure sensor being involved with anything other than the EVAP system. I can't think of a scenario where fuel system (fuel rail) psi would need to be altered based on the amount of EVAP vapor psi in the tank.
No fuel rail psi sensor and no fuel pump duty cycle commands on the scan tool tell us this is a mechanical returnless fuel system. (Regulator is in the tank and part of the fuel pump assembly)

Don't be a parts changer!
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7 years 1 week ago #27985 by benphillipstn
Replied by benphillipstn on topic Returnless fuel system. No fuel rail pressure sensor??
That makes sense. I couldn't understand how tank pressure would relate to rail pressure. I'm still learning. I just signed up for premium. Great videos!

I'm starting to think this car has a stuck open egr or the o2 is lying. Total fuel trim is around -13 at idle, lots of engine vibration in the steering wheel.

I haven't invested in a good scan tool yet. The one I'm using doesn't have egr position listed.

Is there anyway to identify an egr valve that is barely stuck open? Maybe with EGR postion data or a vacuum gague?

I just started watching your chapter 5 videos on testing o2 sensors. I think this will be my next step.

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