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2014 Ford Expedition misfire and possible compression issue.
- 70monte
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3 weeks 1 hour ago #92864
by 70monte
2014 Ford Expedition misfire and possible compression issue. was created by 70monte
Need some suggestions on a compression issue on a 2014 Ford Expedition with the 3 valve 5.4L
This is my fiancé's parent's vehicle and her dad and some other relatives did a timing job on it with all new Motorcraft timing parts and all new Motorcraft rocker arms and roller/followers. They also installed a Mellings High volume oil pump.
After the repair the vehicle has a miss on cylinder 5. They swapped coils and injectors with another cylinder and installed a new Motorcraft spark plug and the misfire stayed in cylinder 5.
I checked injector pulse with a noid light on the cylinder 5 injector and it flashes with the truck running.
I did a power balance test with my scanner and cylinder 5 had no contribution at all.
I did a relative compression test with the scanner and all of the cylinders were 0 or 1-2% except for cylinder 5 which was at 24%.
While turning the engine over in clear flood mode while doing the relative compression, the cadence of the engine was not even further pointing to a compression problem. We also checked spark on cylinder 5 and it's good.
Today they pulled the driver's side valve cover to see if the rocker arms were still attached or if they could see any issues while it was running. They said everything looked normal and intact and all rocker arms were moving up and down the same amount as the engine ran.
They ran a borescope down into cylinder 5 to see if there were any valves that were damaged or if anything looked abnormal, but everything looked good.
We were going to do a manual compression test, but my MAC compression test kit did not have the right connector to install a compression hose into the spark plug hole so I ordered one that will be here on Wednesday because no local parts place had one. We will also do a cylinder leak down test once we get the right connector.
My question is what else should we be looking at? They all swear that they set the timing components were set up correctly and triple checked the marks when setting it up. If they screwed up the timing setup, would it only affect once cylinder? I would think that there would be an entire bank affected.
The truck ran fine with no issues before the repair other than it had some startup rattle that quieted down as the truck ran. The only issue they found on tear down was a bad tensioner. The plastic guides were even still intact. Vehicle has around 170,000 miles on it.
Thanks for any suggestions.
This is my fiancé's parent's vehicle and her dad and some other relatives did a timing job on it with all new Motorcraft timing parts and all new Motorcraft rocker arms and roller/followers. They also installed a Mellings High volume oil pump.
After the repair the vehicle has a miss on cylinder 5. They swapped coils and injectors with another cylinder and installed a new Motorcraft spark plug and the misfire stayed in cylinder 5.
I checked injector pulse with a noid light on the cylinder 5 injector and it flashes with the truck running.
I did a power balance test with my scanner and cylinder 5 had no contribution at all.
I did a relative compression test with the scanner and all of the cylinders were 0 or 1-2% except for cylinder 5 which was at 24%.
While turning the engine over in clear flood mode while doing the relative compression, the cadence of the engine was not even further pointing to a compression problem. We also checked spark on cylinder 5 and it's good.
Today they pulled the driver's side valve cover to see if the rocker arms were still attached or if they could see any issues while it was running. They said everything looked normal and intact and all rocker arms were moving up and down the same amount as the engine ran.
They ran a borescope down into cylinder 5 to see if there were any valves that were damaged or if anything looked abnormal, but everything looked good.
We were going to do a manual compression test, but my MAC compression test kit did not have the right connector to install a compression hose into the spark plug hole so I ordered one that will be here on Wednesday because no local parts place had one. We will also do a cylinder leak down test once we get the right connector.
My question is what else should we be looking at? They all swear that they set the timing components were set up correctly and triple checked the marks when setting it up. If they screwed up the timing setup, would it only affect once cylinder? I would think that there would be an entire bank affected.
The truck ran fine with no issues before the repair other than it had some startup rattle that quieted down as the truck ran. The only issue they found on tear down was a bad tensioner. The plastic guides were even still intact. Vehicle has around 170,000 miles on it.
Thanks for any suggestions.
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- Chad
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2 weeks 6 days ago #92866
by Chad
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
Replied by Chad on topic 2014 Ford Expedition misfire and possible compression issue.
A leak-down test is, exactly, what you should do next. All signs point to a loss of compression on #5. The only question is "where is it going?"
If you have a pulse sensor, it would be worth the time to look at an intake manifold waveform while cranking.
An in-cylinder pressure waveform could be very telling of the valve events.
If you have a pulse sensor, it would be worth the time to look at an intake manifold waveform while cranking.
An in-cylinder pressure waveform could be very telling of the valve events.
"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."
I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right.
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2 weeks 6 days ago #92867
by 70monte
Replied by 70monte on topic 2014 Ford Expedition misfire and possible compression issue.
Thanks for the reply. Hopefully the compression adapter I ordered will arrive tomorrow so we can figure out where the compression is going. The other question is also what caused it since the truck ran fine before the repair. I do have a pulse sensor so I may try using it as well.
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2 weeks 5 days ago #92869
by 70monte
Replied by 70monte on topic 2014 Ford Expedition misfire and possible compression issue.
We did the leak down test today and we had 100% leak down into the intake so we have an intake valve issue. This engine has two intake valves so now we have to figure out which one is the problem.
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2 weeks 4 days ago #92875
by Tyler
Replied by Tyler on topic 2014 Ford Expedition misfire and possible compression issue.
Is everyone certain that the misfire didn't exist prior to repairs?
New lifters? Only thing I can think of is a sticking lifter, causing an intake valve to stay open. If you can get the camshaft lobe pointed away, you can try (carefully) popping the intake followers out one at a time. When you pop one out and the leak down stops, you're on the right track.
New lifters? Only thing I can think of is a sticking lifter, causing an intake valve to stay open. If you can get the camshaft lobe pointed away, you can try (carefully) popping the intake followers out one at a time. When you pop one out and the leak down stops, you're on the right track.
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2 weeks 4 days ago #92877
by 70monte
Replied by 70monte on topic 2014 Ford Expedition misfire and possible compression issue.
Yes, we are sure there was no misfire before the repair. The vehicle idled smoothly and the CEL was not on. It does not idle smoothly now, and the CEL is now on.
The owner did use the spring compressor and removed both of the intake lifters because he thought maybe there was air trapped in them but that did not fix the issue.
After talking to him, I don't think that the correct procedure was done when putting the cams back in and possibly they bent the valves. I guess they put all of the rockers and lifters in and then bolted the cams down. From what I have read and the videos that I have watched, that is not the correct way to do it but I have never done timing on these engines so I don't know.
The owner did use the spring compressor and removed both of the intake lifters because he thought maybe there was air trapped in them but that did not fix the issue.
After talking to him, I don't think that the correct procedure was done when putting the cams back in and possibly they bent the valves. I guess they put all of the rockers and lifters in and then bolted the cams down. From what I have read and the videos that I have watched, that is not the correct way to do it but I have never done timing on these engines so I don't know.
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2 weeks 3 days ago #92880
by Noah
Replied by Noah on topic 2014 Ford Expedition misfire and possible compression issue.
Any time I have done a 3v timing set, there's certain rocker arms that require removal. The camshafts do not need to be removed to do this, really just a big screwdriver is enough to pop them out and back in. I bet they bent valves. As far as which or how many doesn't really matter yet. You'll see when the head comes off.
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2 weeks 2 days ago #92881
by 70monte
Replied by 70monte on topic 2014 Ford Expedition misfire and possible compression issue.
I'm not sure why they removed the cams. I know they replaced the cam phasers so maybe they thought they had to for that or for replacing the rocker arms and roller/followers.
The owner has decided to pull everything back down to the beginning. I personally would just pull the driver's side head but I guess now he is questioning everything that they did. I told him I didn't think he had any timing issues since the computer has not flagged any and they have driven the vehicle several times after taking out and putting the roller/followers back in.
He is going to tear it back down starting Monday and will also pull the head off because he thinks that he may have a head gasket issue even though there were no signs of that prior to the repair. He doesn't think he has bent valves but I guess time will tell. Thanks for your input.
The owner has decided to pull everything back down to the beginning. I personally would just pull the driver's side head but I guess now he is questioning everything that they did. I told him I didn't think he had any timing issues since the computer has not flagged any and they have driven the vehicle several times after taking out and putting the roller/followers back in.
He is going to tear it back down starting Monday and will also pull the head off because he thinks that he may have a head gasket issue even though there were no signs of that prior to the repair. He doesn't think he has bent valves but I guess time will tell. Thanks for your input.
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