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Help us help you. By posting the year, make, model and engine near the beginning of your help request, followed by the symptoms (no start, high idle, misfire etc.) Along with any prevalent Diagnostic Trouble Codes, aka DTCs, other forum members will be able to help you get to a solution more quickly and easily!

2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes

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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #92094 by caddiscaster17
2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes was created by caddiscaster17
I recently acquired a 2002 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0l automatic with a crank no start symptom. It was running great until it was turned over on its top, and towed home. We were careful to drain fluids, pull plugs and crank out any fluid. All fluids were replaced at that time. It started and ran fine for a month, 5 or 6 trips until it got really cold and would not start. It has been sitting for 6 months since and am know working on this. Another unusual observation is that when towed into the shop, much of the transmission fluid is leaking out onto the floor. A new issue that was not noticed after the roll over. Not sure if it might be related to the no start issue. I am a home mechanic with limited knowledge, but this is where I am at at this time:

1. OBDII reader provides no codes
2. Crank no start, gauges do respond, not tach however
3. Fresh battery
4. New spark plugs
5. Will not start or fire with a shot of ether
6. Fuel pressure at rail, enough to shoot out when schrader valve is pushed open. Have not tested pressure
7. Replaced Crankshaft Sensor
8. Replaced coil pack
9. Have tested 5.0v system at MAP sensor with key on and have 5.0v
10. Have tested and visually inspected all fuses
11. Have swapped relays, no change. Have not tested or replaced relays.

I am at a loss of what to try next. I have access to volt meters, test lights, and recently purchased an Icon T8 diagnostic tool, but my knowledge of running that is very limited.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by caddiscaster17.

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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #92100 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic 2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes
Check to see if you are getting battery voltage at the coil when you turn the key on.  If you can, back probe the connector, use a pierce probe, or disconnect the connector and front probe the Dark Green wire with a light green strip on pin #2 of the coil connector. If you front-probe, be careful to just touch the terminals of the connector. Do not jam the probes of you volt meter into them. If you use a pierce probe, be sure to seal the pierce hole with some liquid tape when you are done testing.  (You can, also, test the Dark Green wire with a light green strip at any of the injectors.)

Without cranking the engine, you should have battery voltage for 2-3 seconds after turning the key on. After the 2-3 seconds, the ASD (Auto Shut Down) Relay will open (de-engergize) and you will no longer have battery voltage. 

Next, crank the engine. Once you start cranking, if the PCM is receiving a crank signal, it will re-energize the ASD Relay and you should, again, have battery voltage on the Dark Green wire with a light green strip on pin #2.

Do this test and report back. 

 

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"Understanding a question is half an answer."

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Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Chad.
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1 month 1 week ago #92103 by Noah
Replied by Noah on topic 2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes
Just here to add that there were 2 ignition coil designs for this engine, early and late. It was possible to install the wrong coil and the firing order would be off. The connector would have to be plugged in upside down, but would fit.

"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"

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1 month 1 week ago #92109 by caddiscaster17
Replied by caddiscaster17 on topic 2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes
I completed the test and confirm battery voltage for a short time when key is turned on when testing pin 2. (Green/yellow)

I will wait for the next step and thank you.

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1 month 1 week ago #92110 by caddiscaster17
Replied by caddiscaster17 on topic 2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes
I also have battery voltage when cranking engine on dark green/yellow wire on pin 2

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1 month 1 week ago #92111 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic 2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes
To be clear, you have voltage the entire time that you are cranking? Even after the intitial 2-3 seconds after turning the key on?

Next, we need to see if you have coil control. A labscope would be the best tool for this but, an incandescent test light will work, too. The other 3 wires of the coil connector are control wires. Key on, Engine off with the connector connected, they should have battery voltage for 2-3 seconds, too. Use an incandescent test light and observe the light. For the first 2-3 seconds, without cranking the engine, the test-light should shine as bright as it did with the power wire. When cranking, look closely and you should see the test-light flicker as the coils fire. ScannerDanner is demonstrating this at 17:20 of this video:
www.scannerdanner.com/scannerdanner-prem...iagnosis-part-3.html

You can, also, check for injector pulse using this same method, or with a noid light. 

If you have coil control and injector pulse, we neee to know what the actual fuel pressure is. 

"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."

I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right. :-)

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1 month 1 week ago #92114 by caddiscaster17
Replied by caddiscaster17 on topic 2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes
Pin 1. (White?)
no light with key on, no light when cranking

Pin 2. (Dark green/light green)
light on briefly, less than a second with key on, solid light, same brightness when cranking

Pin 3. (Blue/white)
no light with key on, no light when cranking

Pin 4. (Red/yellow)
no light with key on, no light when cranking

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1 month 1 week ago #92115 by caddiscaster17
Replied by caddiscaster17 on topic 2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes
After watching linked video from above, I swapped the test light to battery positive and did the same test.
Pin 1. - no light on key on. Pulsing light with engine crank.
Pin 2. Solid/flickering ish with key on. No light on cranking
Pin 3. No light with key on, pulsing light with engine cranking.
Pin 4. No light with key on. Pulsing light with engine cranking.

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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #92119 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic 2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes
Seeing the test light pulse after moving your test-light to battery positive confirms that you do have coil control. The PCM is pulsing a ground. This tells us that your crank sensor is producing a signal.

However, with the test light connected to battery negative and the test-light not lighting at all when touching the control wires, that is an indication of a problem.

1. The coil could be open/bad. (Battery voltage should enter the coil on the Power Feed wire and come out on the control wires.)
Or
2. The control is shorted to ground. We know this is not the case because you had a pulse when the test light was connected to Battery +. If the control was shorted to ground the test-light would not pulse, it would be constantly lit.  (Also, it is not impossible but, it is unlikely that you have 3 shorted control circuits.)

Disconnect coil connector and use an ohm meter to check the resistance of the coil pack. Touch one lead of the ohm meter to Power Feed on Pin #2 of the coil pack. Touch the other lead of the ohm meter to each of the control pins, one at a time. You should get a reading of about 1 Ω between the Power Feed pin and each of the control pins. If you don't, you have a bad coil pack. 

Be sure to watch the video that I posted from [11:15] to [44:30].
 

"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."

I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right. :-)
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Chad.

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1 month 1 week ago #92121 by caddiscaster17
Replied by caddiscaster17 on topic 2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes
When conducting the ohm test described above, each pin, 1,3,4 had the same reading of 1.2 ohms.

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1 month 1 week ago #92122 by caddiscaster17
Replied by caddiscaster17 on topic 2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes
And just to be clear all key/crank tests were at pin connector with coil pack unplugged.

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1 month 1 week ago #92124 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic 2002 Jeep 4.0l Crank no Start, no codes

And just to be clear all key/crank tests were at pin connector with coil pack unplugged.
 
The test of cranking while checking for a flickering test-light on the control wires should have been done with the coil pack connected to the wiring harness. 
A measurement of 1.2 Ω of resistance suggests a good coil. However, open circuit resistance tests can be misleading. It would be a good idea to redo the flicker test with the coil connected.

If you re-test and see a flicker on the control wires of the coil, do the same test on the one or two of the injectors, just to verify that you have injector pulse, too. If it turns out that you have a good coil/control and good injector pulse, then we need to know what your actual fuel pressure is. 

If it turns out that you have a good, sparking coil pack, injector pulse, and good fuel pressure, we will need to verify cam/valve timing.

 

"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."

I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right. :-)

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