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5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…

  • Calgary Drew
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3 months 3 weeks ago #91819 by Calgary Drew
5S-FE crank, no start, no spark… was created by Calgary Drew
I have inherited a problem car tonrepair…
1995 toyota celica gt convertible. 2.2l 5 spd car.
Had a crank no start last year, apparently, someone repaired the wiring in the distributor and replaced the coil… owner was bringing car out of storage, now has a no start situation.
replaced distributor with new from rock…tested with two known good ignitors as well, 
still have no start. After watching numerous videos and testing with equipment I do have (no scope) I am looking for ways to test the ecu for faults or wiring issues… anyone have a pinout for the ecu?
Thanks in advance from Calgary AB
Drew

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3 months 3 weeks ago #91820 by Chad
Replied by Chad on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…
The first thing you need to do is figure out what is missing. Verify that you have spark at the spark plugs, Power and Control Pulses at the injectors, and Fuel Pressure.

If you have good Fuel, Injector Pulses, Spark, and compression....all at the proper times, the engine  should run. Do some testing to see what is missing and let us know.

"Knowledge is a weapon. Arm yourself, well, before going to do battle."
"Understanding a question is half an answer."

I have learned more by being wrong, than I have by being right. :-)
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3 months 3 weeks ago #91821 by Calgary Drew
Replied by Calgary Drew on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…
Hey Chad, thanks for the reply…
BUT as stated in my original post… crank, no start.
I should have been more specific…
No spark, so, no tach signal… therefor no fuel… was running when parked. Need to check the ecu to see if the owner shorted when trying to boost the car during spring start up, all other components are new or good used ( tested in another toyota of same vintage). All that is left to check is wiring and ecu… just have no idea how to test the OBD1 system without a scope.

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3 months 3 weeks ago #91822 by Noah
Replied by Noah on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…
There is a 2 part series on YouTube of Scanner Danner testing his sons 1994 Celica for a no spark, no start condition where he does a really great job explaing the ignition system while walking through the diagram on paper.



BUT as stated in my original post… crank, no start.I should have been more specific…No spark, so, no tach signal… therefor no fuel…

While no tach is a great clue in determining why there is no spark, having no spark does not always mean that there will be no tachometer operation.

"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"
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3 months 3 weeks ago - 3 months 3 weeks ago #91823 by Calgary Drew
Replied by Calgary Drew on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…
Noah, those videos are the reason I am here, have tried to follow through them while with the car, but I do not have access to a scope!
and from what I understand… if the ecu is seeing a signal, the tach SHOULD bounce.
And was hoping somebody has the full pinout for the ecu…
Last edit: 3 months 3 weeks ago by Calgary Drew. Reason: Added comment

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3 months 3 weeks ago #91824 by Noah
Replied by Noah on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…

Noah, those videos are the reason I am here, have tried to follow through them while with the car, but I do not have access to a scope!

Time to make the investment! A scope isn't a luxury or option for today's auto repair technician. There are more affordable scope options on the market today than ever before. 

I can't find a complete PCM pin out, but these diagrams should have what you are looking for.
 

"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"

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3 months 3 weeks ago #91825 by Calgary Drew
Replied by Calgary Drew on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…
Noah… thank-you! Gives me a place to start looking.
As far as a scope goes… I haven’t needed/used one in probably 20years… and I am a red seal tech in Canada! The need for one just doesn’t come up much… the reason I don’t have a personal one. I build more than I diagnose, ALSO part of the problem, trying to not skip any steps that push me the wrong direction.
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3 months 2 weeks ago #91840 by Calgary Drew
Replied by Calgary Drew on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…
Ok, so, bought an oscilloscope, now time to learn how to use it properly here!!
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3 months 1 week ago #91858 by Calgary Drew
Replied by Calgary Drew on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…
Ok, so, have continuity between ECU and distributor, showing equal resistance across the pick ups, voltage to the distributor pins as teqd. Cant figure out how to operate the oscilloscope. So that’s not helping…
But still not seeing a check engine light… ecu coming out to get tested… any other suggestions?

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3 months 1 week ago - 3 months 1 week ago #91859 by Calgary Drew
Replied by Calgary Drew on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…
Ok, so, have continuity between ECU and distributor, showing close to equal resistance across the pick ups, coils tests good, voltage to the distributor pins as required. (I think anyway?!) Cant figure out how to operate the oscilloscope. So that’s not helping…
But still not seeing a check engine light or fluctuations in the tach… ecu coming out to get tested… any other suggestions?    
Edit to add… no, I have like zero experience using a scope… instructions that came with scope dont show how to use it to properly test in this manner… I don’t even know if it has the parameters needed to do this testing!  And no, I have no idea what settings to use to test the crank and cam pickups…
Last edit: 3 months 1 week ago by Calgary Drew. Reason: Additional info added

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3 months 1 week ago #91860 by Noah
Replied by Noah on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…

But still not seeing a check engine light

That's new information. If there's no engine light present, I like to check for 5v on a MAP, TPS etc. to see if the computer is "alive".
Were you able to use the diagram to verify all the powers and grounds are present to the engine computer? 

And no, I have no idea what settings to use to test the crank and cam pickups…

Definitely a learning curve. Especially when the first thing you try to scope is broken. 

"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"
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3 months 1 week ago #91861 by Calgary Drew
Replied by Calgary Drew on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…
Noah, ueah, sorry, no cel, no tach signal from the get go.
As far as I can tell, all grounds and powers are present.
I am leaning to the. ECU being the issue, as all 4 crank/ cam terminals have some voltage key on or cranking… can not see any fluctuation in them.
Owner of car said she had an issue when she went to boost/ charge the battery to get it out of winter storage… but she couldn’t elaborate, as it was her neighbor that was giving her a hand.
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3 months 6 days ago - 3 months 6 days ago #91879 by Rallymechanic
Replied by Rallymechanic on topic 5S-FE crank, no start, no spark…
send me a message , my email is: scottmotorsportz@gmail.com and i'll send you a pdf  on how to get the codes for the Celica.
It won't upload for some reason.
Last edit: 3 months 6 days ago by Rallymechanic.

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