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2015 chrysler T&C po175 po172

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3 weeks 4 days ago #80024 by DShock
I have a 2015 Chrysler Town and Country. I keep getting p0172 po175 codes. I have changed the O2 sensors, installed new OEM fuel injectors, both camshaft sensors and a crankshaft sensor, a PCV valve, new map sensor and IAT. I recently bought a scanner to see if I could figure out what the issue was. But I'm not sure what I'm looking at with the data I feel like the map sensor and the IAT are not working correctly although I do have voltage at each. I'm going to attach my latest live data report and maybe someone can tell me what on there is wrong. Thanks in advance. 

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80554 by Tyler
Replied by Tyler on topic 2015 chrysler T&C po175 po172
Thanks for adding the scan data report. 

First, the total trims on both banks in this capture aren't negative enough to set fault codes. That means your lean condition is intermittent and not happening during this capture.

Second, I have a concern with the EVAP purge valve. From your report:

Actual purge current - 0mA
Fuel tank pressure - -.1 PSI
ESIM switch - Closed

The actual purge current indicates that the PCM is not energizing the purge valve. But the fuel tank pressure and the ESIM switch both indicate vacuum in the tank.   The PCM could be doing an intrusive EVAP system test. Or, the purge valve could be stuck open and leaking.

A leaking purge could cause intermittent rich fuel trims, especially right after refueling. Are the P0172/P0175 still present? If so, pull the Freeze Frame data and see what the fuel tank level was when the fault codes set.

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80555 by DShock
So my current scanner will not read a freeze frame. But I have a new one on the way. But while viewing the live data while driving today under the fuel tank pressure it was constantly like negative.08.07 around there. The parameters on my scanner say negative 4.2 I guess to positive 4.2 I'm not real sure. Is this an indication of something that the purge valve is stuck open and is there another way for me to test that theory. I really appreciate the help. Thanks

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80556 by DShock
So I did a screen record of what's happening Maybe that will tell you more period At about the Minute Mark I started to rev the engine up a little bit Period but there doesn't seem to be much change and then at the very end of the video with about 10 or 15 seconds left I turned the engine off that left the key on. No matter what it always shows a negative amount. What does that mean bad purge valve and is that the whole purge canister. I'm new to all this. Thanks for all your help in advance

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80558 by DShock
Never mind it will not post the video it's too large. But basically the value never gets above -.08209. As I drove it around and watched it it never got above the negative value.
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3 weeks 1 day ago #80601 by Tyler
Replied by Tyler on topic 2015 chrysler T&C po175 po172

So my current scanner will not read a freeze frame.


It actually can, just not under the OEM menu. Under Diagnostics, with all the vehicle manufacturers, there'll be EOBD. Auto Scan, hit OK, then DTC/FFD. If the fault codes are still there, there should be a snowflake shown with one of the fault codes. That's your Freeze Frame.

Unfortunately, the TopScan won't let you save the whole Freeze Frame like the data report. We're mostly just interested in the fuel level for now.

No matter what it always shows a negative amount. What does that mean bad purge valve and is that the whole purge canister.

Never mind it will not post the video it's too large. But basically the value never gets above -.08209. As I drove it around and watched it it never got above the negative value.


That may be another indicator of a failed purge valve? It's tough to say without knowing what the commanded purge current was at the time.

Your Town & Country uses an ESIM system for evaporative system monitoring. There's too much that goes into it for one post, but there's an excellent article here if you want to know more:

www.vehicleservicepros.com/industry-news...084355/chrysler-esim

Is this an indication of something that the purge valve is stuck open and is there another way for me to test that theory.


There's a couple different ways to confirm a bad purge. The easier way would be to:

1. Beginning with the engine off, remove and reinstall the gas cap. This is to vent any pressure/vacuum prior to the test.
2. Turn the ignition on but don't start the engine.
3. Connect the scan tool and monitor the ESIM switch, actual purge current and the fuel tank pressure. Switch should be open, tank pressure should be close to zero.
4. Start the engine and watch the data for 15-20 seconds. If the ESIM closes, that would indicate that the purge is stuck open.

The other way would be to access the purge directly. Getting to it isn't hard, but getting the connector and vapor lines off can sometimes be a hassle. We can keep it non-intrusive for now.

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80602 by DShock
Okay I just saw your post. I was out here working on the van. I took the line off from the charcoal filtration to the purge valve and it's definitely closed I started the engine and let it run and it remained closed I only let it run for through 3 minutes. For some reason my top Don shows the snowflake but it isn't letting me hit it it's faded instead of a brighter color. I have a different one coming but it won't be here for a while. I have a zulrich and I will drive around until the codes go off again and I will record the Freeze Frame. Could I have a bad gas cap?

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80603 by DShock
Okay I did what you said and the tank pressure stayed at around - .1000. It ran for about a minute and then the switch says closed instead of open initially when I started it it said open. I did check the purge valve earlier and it appeared to be closed as there was no vacuum coming from the purge valve to the charcoal line. The charcoal line obviously had vacuum. I really appreciate your help this has been going on for at least a year

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80604 by DShock
I was able to grab some pictures of the freeze frame from a different OBD2 
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3 weeks 1 day ago #80605 by Tyler
Replied by Tyler on topic 2015 chrysler T&C po175 po172

It ran for about a minute and then the switch says closed instead of open initially when I started it it said open. 

Do you recall what the actual purge current was when the switch closed? I ask because it's possible after a minute of run time that the PCM will command the purge open. The ESIM switch will close as a result.

 I did check the purge valve earlier and it appeared to be closed as there was no vacuum coming from the purge valve to the charcoal line. The charcoal line obviously had vacuum.


So to be clear, the port on the purge valve going to the canister DID have vacuum on it? You'll want to unplug the purge valve electrical connector to make sure the valve isn't being commanded open during the test. You can also use a vacuum gauge if you have any doubts on if you're feeling vacuum.

I was able to grab some pictures of the freeze frame from a different OBD2


Awesome, thank you! The fuel level is high but not exactly a full tank. Which scan tool did you use to retrieve this Freeze Frame?

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80606 by DShock
So I just ran the test again and The Purge current stays at zero while the key is just forward and then I started the vehicle and ran it for 2 or 3 minutes The Purge current stayed at 0 milliamps but every now and then it would flash very quickly .977 milliamps, that flash was so quick it was very hard to read when it would. And that would happen intermittently had no set interval. So to be clear about the test I did on the purge valve. I just connected the charcoal line from the purge valve and there was no vacuum coming from the purge valve itself. The line going to the charcoal did have a vacuum on it. I even got a piece of toilet paper just to see if maybe the vacuum was slight but there was no vacuum coming from the purge valve at any time. I also disconnected the electrical line to the purge valve and there was still no vacuum that I could tell at the purge valve. I tested that with the engine running and with the engine off

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80607 by DShock
Sorry I didn't see that ,I got the freeze frame with my Bluetooth zulrich

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3 weeks 1 day ago #80608 by DShock
Sorry I wanted to be clear. When I did the test on the purge valve the hose that I undid from the purge valve didn't have any kind of special connector on it it just slid onto the purge valve without any kind of a snap or hose clamp. There is another hose that leaves The Purge but it has a special clamp that clamps it to the purge valve the one with the special clamp I did not undo. I only undid the one that slides on to the purge valve. I don't really see where they go so I'm assuming the one that slides on is the one that goes to the charcoal canister

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3 weeks 23 hours ago - 3 weeks 23 hours ago #80609 by Tyler
Replied by Tyler on topic 2015 chrysler T&C po175 po172

Sorry I wanted to be clear.


No worries! I genuinely appreciate it.

I grabbed a picture of the valve for reference:

 

The one going to the canister is the one with the quick connect fitting. The one that's a pain to get off.  The one to the engine is the normal rubber hose.

Unfortunately, testing at the rubber hose won't tell you if the purge valve is leaking. You'll need to get the quick connect end disconnected. Sliding the valve off the bracket might help. Leave the rubber hose connected to the valve and start the engine. Check for vacuum at the canister port.

Sorry I didn't see that ,I got the freeze frame with my Bluetooth zulrich


If/when you get time, let me know what you think of the the Zurich compared to the TopScan. Always interested in new scan tools.
Last edit: 3 weeks 23 hours ago by Tyler.

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3 weeks 23 hours ago #80611 by DShock
So apparently the top scan I have is not the top scan Pro and it's pretty much just for reading codes. I do have the top scanpro coming. The top scan seems to tell you more than the zorich Bluetooth. But the storage Bluetooth will allow you to pull different parameters to view on your live data so you can only watch what you want to watch which is pretty good. The top scan that I have don't allow you to do that so you have to kind of search each individual item that you're trying to observe.

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3 weeks 23 hours ago #80613 by DShock
So I took the correct line off of the purge valve and there is no vacuum coming from the purge valve after taking off the Quick Connect fitting as you showed in your picture. I did undo the electrical connection and there's still no vacuum there. I even took the electrical line off and both vacuum hoses and tried to blow through it and it was closed.

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3 weeks 21 hours ago #80614 by DShock
Another bit of information I may have forgot to mention is when I got the vehicle back I had some run on issue when I would go to start it it seemed like there was some kind of timing issue going on. So I had a mechanic friend replaced the two camshaft sensors in the crankshaft sensor. he said no relearn was needed but everything I see says you have to do a relearn on those when they are installed. I was getting the po175 and po172 before and after changing those. But looking into this evaporator purge valve issue it sounds like that can cause the engine to run on during starting too. Do you know if those sensors will operate without having to do a relearn? The new top Dawn scanner I have coming is supposed to be capable of doing a relearn.

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3 weeks 15 hours ago #80618 by DShock
Maybe I lack and understanding of how it works but as I was driving it would show Purge current was present but the switch would still say closed even though Purge milliamp was present.

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2 weeks 6 days ago #80743 by DShock
         

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