2016 RAM 3500 6.4 HEMI P0171\P0174 after lifter\timing was done

Hello from Winnipeg,  Canada!

My name is Andy
Have a mystery problem...
2016 Dodge RAM 3500 6.4 HEMI

There was a "Ticking" noise from the engine, after the diagnostic - the push rod and lifter on cyl#8 was damaged
My young fleet mechanic did all the work:
- new camshaft
- new head gaskets
- new head bolts
- lifters \ pushrods
- spark plugs
- intake gaskets

After all was done - the ticking noise gone
But... 45 seconds after the engine starts - active codes P0171 and P0174

Fuel trim
Short term - B1 +30%   B2 +30%
Long-term - positive as well and raising up 
Found an exhaust leak near inlet EGR tube (left exhaust manifold) - fixed, gasket replaced
Found a small vacuum leak near throttle body - fixed, gasket replaced

Idling at 700-750 rpm - short term  +28-30%
2000RPM - short term dropping down up to +2-3% 
Stupid questions:
Can it be timing related? missing one tooth? 
If yes - any chance somebody has a waveform for 6.4 HEMI? (find online only for 5.7)
Or should I still chase a vacuum \ intake leak? +30% on idling is a lot of extra air in the system 

Just confused
I don't have a smoke machine to check intake leak properly....

Sorry to bugging forum with so simple problem...

Sure looks like a vacuum leak as you present it.
The times that I have seen speed density systems, (no MAF), mechanically out of time, it has presented as rich at idle.
Incorrect timing results in low engine vacuum, which the ECM interprets as load. Fuel is added for this "load" that doesn't exist, and the mixture ends up being too rich.
There's exceptions to every rule, but that's been my experience.
I would try to get my hands on a smoke machine.
Alternatively, you can mist water around the intake manifold and listen for it to be sucked in, or the more dangerous method of spraying brake clean (or your favorite flammable aerosol, propane, MAP gas etc.) around the manifold while watching STFT or RPM to change.

Keep yer stick on the ice!

Thanks for respond

Updates:
Air\vacuum leak - spent two hours with brake cleaner and water - none

Plug all inlets to intake - fill up intake with vape smoke (xD) - find small leak near intake EGR tube - gasket replaced but still ST +28-30

Found a code list from mid of OCT 2023 - P2271 - O2 Stuck rich - all O2 wires and connectors looks good, O2 sensors was replaced (was OEM 160k km) - same +30% on ST

Fuel pump test -  pump running 20 sec - 1.3 liter, looks good to me

check all vac lines on throttle body to the back of intake and your air filter, i think theres a litte one underthe maf senor plug also checkthe sensor plug or senor have got dirty. GOOD LUCK

Any after market or modified cold air intake?
If injectors were removed during repairs, the o-rings can end up misaligned or damaged and create a vacuum leak where they press into the intake.
Just throwing some ideas out there.

Intake - OEM, no any modification
All vacuum lines was checked - all is good (the vehicle has a hydraulic brake booster so is no to many vac lines on it)
Fuel injector o-rings was replaced
Did a double-check on timing - good

Bring my Autel MS906BT scanner to check it (before mechanics use a simple reader)

Still +30% on LT
But  one info confused me completely
Barometric pressure 331kPa (normal range 100-102 kPa) if I pick Dodge specific, but is near 98-101 in general OBDII live data

Tried to replace a MAP sensor (used but in working condition) - same result, still +30ST

MAP sensor voltage - 
Idling 700-730RPM - 1.1 - 1.5 volts
Wide open throttle (4000RPM) - 1.2 volts - should be near 3-4v if I remember right

Looks like it is wires\ECM problem

Hello again for everyone

Now have a time to check that issue with RAM (yes still have that problem)

Same +28-32% on ST (P0171\0174) 30 sec after the start

- all wires to MAP and MAF was checked - good (ground, signal and 5v)
- all poser and ground to ECM checked - good

Today have a chance to check vacuum using a vacuum meter and some info is confuse me completely
Use AUTEL MS906BT
- live data from OBD (Global, not in DODGE specific) idling 750-800RPM
* intake manifold absolute pressure - 3.48 psi
* ST B1S1 +26%
* ST B2S1 +30%
* Barometric pressure - 14.21 psi

- Live data from specific DODGE section\room (using VIN) idling 750-800RPM
* MAP vacuum - 71 inHg or 35 psi
* Barometric pressure - 98 inHg or 48 psi
* ST - same

1. I'm confused - why data is different from GLOBAL OBD and specific DODGE "room" in Autel scanner

2. Actual intake vacuum on vacuum gauge connected to intake is 21inHg or 10.31 psi on idling

3. Live data information from DODGE section - looks like all is multiplied by "3" (actual vacuum is 10 live data shows 30, actual barometric pressure is 15 psi live data shows 48 psi)

Start to be a little bit crazy with that problem...
Any ideas where to "dig" next - ECM? Oxygen sensors downstream...

Was installed new:
- Intake gaskets
- Fuel injector o-rings
- O2 sensors upstream
- MAP sensor (aftermarket new, OEM used)
- Head gaskets
- Lifters
- One rocker arm
- Air filter
- Fresh oil and filter

Thanks for any information "kick" from you guys....

Just reading back through, how do the trims react under load?
Specifically, what are the values for LTFT & STFT, B1 & B2, at idle, 1500 rpm and 2500 rpm.
I should have asked you that to begin with, guess it got away from me, lol.

Hello again)
Yes, still the same problem, still trying to figure out why...
It's a fleet truck - so when I have time, can check something on it

Data on idling
RPM - 750
ST1: +29 LT1: +1
ST2: +28 LT2: +2

RPM - 1450
ST1: +4.9 LT1: 0
ST2: +1.9 LT2: 0

RPM - 2450
ST1: +3.9 LT1: 0
ST2: +2.4 LT2: 0

Did a small checks:
Up O2 sensor wiring - check, good. Ground, signal wires from ECM.
Connect the vacuum meter to the intake - the vacuum is good

"Mystery" or "fun" info :
Decided to unplug the UP O2 sensor and try to run the engine without... ST 1 and ST 2 are 0 on any RPM...

Engine codes -
Have only O2 sensor heater codes -
P0032 and P0052....
But!
None codes for a sensor circuit, like
P0154 - No activity
P0150 - Circuit Malfunction

Still think it's an ECM issue, like a damaged O2 sensor driver or etc
But, don't have idea how to prove it...

My drivers "jump" that truck 8-10 times before all job was done. And it can be a possibility, that they cross the terminals on battery from a jumper pack...

Most of the Dodge trucks I have worked on have a MAP sensor only. Does this truck also have a mass airflow sensor? (MAF).
Those trim values high at idle and normal at higher rpm are text book symptoms of a vacuum leak on a MAF equipped engine....

Good morning everyone

Had some time, to do more investigation on this "mystery" truck

1. Found "mystery" voltage on the control wires from ECM to the ASD relay - 1.3 volts
 - one ECM ground wire was corroded - fixed, but no changes to the fuel trim issue

2. Live data ST and LT is great when the truck is under load - shifter on "P" + hold the brakes + hold RPM near 1300-1500
 - ST:-3.5%   LT:0

3. Yes - this engine had MAF and MAP sensors, MAF live data is not available on AUTEL scanner

4. That issue completely piss me off, I ordered a small smoke machine from my pocket to check possible vacuum leaks

Thank you
Will keep you updated

Good morning!

Got the smoke machine
 - There was one small leak near the EGR pipe - fixed, and no more leaks
The truck still doing +30% fuel trim

Looks like 2 options left :
1. Something was done incorrect in cam \ timing job
2. ECM is bad

Will do some extra testing
Thanks

Some live data 
1. near 1500 RPM with load - transmission in D holding brakes 
2. Idling with load - transmission in D holding brakes 
3. Idling without load

     

Just passing this info along. On one of Paul's tests, I remember if a vehicle had both a map and a maf sensor, the map was performing egr functions, etc. Way i understood this situation, maf would be primary sensor control. As Noah stated earlier, your symptoms are classic vacuum leak symptoms if vehicle has maf sensor. Just throwing this info out there. Thanks.

So....

We checked:
- timing: all is good
- fuel injectors o-rigs (again) all is good
- vacuum leaks with smoke machine (two times) - no leeks

After, I connected the vacuum meter to the deep stick tube and plugged the PCV hose ...
And I have a vacuum in a crankcase....



That truck starts to make me nerves...
Or I'm wrong completely?

If you totally isolate the pcv system, there should be no vacuum in the crankcase. Paul's paper edition. pg.1-5.

I remember that part of the book...

But now question where is that leak?
PCV valve - new
Intake gaskets - new
No visual damage on intake

Is there any possibility wrong installed head gaskets (mirror installed, or swap LH with RH) can do that leak \ lean condition?

I just was on a test drive - if the engine load is over 24% - all fuel trims are in perfect range...

So
On idle - ECM completely closes the throttle because O2 sensors send lean condition and ECM starts to add more fuel to compensate it.
With more load - the engine starts to use more air - O2 sensors "like" the mixture and ECM "based" on the O2 sensor signal - stop to add fuel...

If I understand right...

Warm the truck up and then check the vacuum pressure gauge reading at the dipstick at idle.. Check your total fuel trims at idle also. Pcv system hooked up as per normal. Thanks.

How about the DOD solenoids under the manifold? I have heard of the block off plugs leaking after a DOD delete. I don't know for certain if that would make a vacuum leak under the intake manifold or not on this engine design but I have seen vacuum leaks before causing lean symptoms from the oil dipstick tube improperly seated on certain other engines.

Great idea Noah. I watched your film again and if i am perceiving this correct- when you pinched off the pcv hose, you were restricting return path for vapours being routed back for burning again- but doing this did show what looks like high vacuum internally- just food for thought- any other thoughts anyone? Great video and take no offence, because none is intended- I think pcv system needs to be sealed and plugged off on both ends and vacuum tube hose slid over the dipstick and then checked for vacuum or pressure- both ends fresh air in and pcv vapour return to manifold.