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2013 Infinity QX56 No Start
1 year 1 month ago #62988
by STIMECE
2013 Infinity QX56 No Start was created by STIMECE
So had this one towed to my shop. This is a used dealership car. Customer states, previous owner drove it, couldn't start it, put new battery in, still didnt start. His mechanic said needs a new ECU, towed to dealership, they installed ECU, still doesn't start.
I am a new shop trying to generate business so I wanted to take a look at it in hopes of generating more business from this guy.
What I have found so far, it showed up with no oil on the dipstick, i put 1 quart. I have no codes, I have spark.
I had to order a matco master fuel pressure kit because I do not have anything where I can tee into the low pressure side.
Here is the kicker. the dealer wants me to get it to run because he will take to auction and he can get more money for it running than not.
Since i didnt have a fuel pressure test kit, i figured I would go around and test all 8 cylinders on compression. I did not bother flooding the injectors because that was my half-arse way of verifying I am getting fuel by checking if the plugs are wet. Well they were bone dry. dirty. But dry.
I initially though timing might have slipped because of the lack of oil and the dead cylinder. To verify timing I shot some carb cleaner into the intake manifold and was able to get it run. But I couldnt get it to stay running. and it sounded terrible.
I have a topdon Phoenix Lite 2, I was able to command the low pressure pump on I can hear it running but whether or not its generating pressure is another story.
I am waiting on tools to remove the high pressure lift pump to see if the lifter is worn to hell and the high pressure pump isnt running of the cam.
Out of all this I am just really perplexed that I don't have any codes. I did try cranking the car and I am not getting any pressure signal on the fuel system although this car does have them its not reporting back to me anything on them....
I also noticed when cranking my maf signal, and tps are flat 0v when cranking or flooding.
Someone please pull me out of this bind! lol This is my first "customer" I had show up so I am really trying to deliver here but this one is perplexing me.
I am a new shop trying to generate business so I wanted to take a look at it in hopes of generating more business from this guy.
What I have found so far, it showed up with no oil on the dipstick, i put 1 quart. I have no codes, I have spark.
I had to order a matco master fuel pressure kit because I do not have anything where I can tee into the low pressure side.
Here is the kicker. the dealer wants me to get it to run because he will take to auction and he can get more money for it running than not.
Since i didnt have a fuel pressure test kit, i figured I would go around and test all 8 cylinders on compression. I did not bother flooding the injectors because that was my half-arse way of verifying I am getting fuel by checking if the plugs are wet. Well they were bone dry. dirty. But dry.
I initially though timing might have slipped because of the lack of oil and the dead cylinder. To verify timing I shot some carb cleaner into the intake manifold and was able to get it run. But I couldnt get it to stay running. and it sounded terrible.
I have a topdon Phoenix Lite 2, I was able to command the low pressure pump on I can hear it running but whether or not its generating pressure is another story.
I am waiting on tools to remove the high pressure lift pump to see if the lifter is worn to hell and the high pressure pump isnt running of the cam.
Out of all this I am just really perplexed that I don't have any codes. I did try cranking the car and I am not getting any pressure signal on the fuel system although this car does have them its not reporting back to me anything on them....
I also noticed when cranking my maf signal, and tps are flat 0v when cranking or flooding.
Someone please pull me out of this bind! lol This is my first "customer" I had show up so I am really trying to deliver here but this one is perplexing me.
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1 year 1 month ago #62993
by Noah
"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"
Replied by Noah on topic 2013 Infinity QX56 No Start
"I initially though timing might have slipped because of the lack of oil and the dead cylinder."
You kind of slipped this one in there, lol.
Is there a cylinder with low or no compression? Not that it would stop the engine from running, but it should certainly factor into how deep you (or the customer) want to dive.
Sounds like you're on the right track with fuel since it fired on carb cleaner. Please update us when you are able to verify fuel pressure.
You kind of slipped this one in there, lol.
Is there a cylinder with low or no compression? Not that it would stop the engine from running, but it should certainly factor into how deep you (or the customer) want to dive.
Sounds like you're on the right track with fuel since it fired on carb cleaner. Please update us when you are able to verify fuel pressure.
"Ground cannot be checked with a 10mm socket"
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1 year 1 month ago #62998
by STIMECE
Replied by STIMECE on topic 2013 Infinity QX56 No Start
Hi Noah!! Keep up that great camera work!
It's got 90 psi in cylinder 5. So not completely dead.
I found some data pids for fuel pressure. Low side is 65 psi which is minimum pressure but in spec. High side is 1431 psi. I'm not really sure how the high pressure side is capable of generating any pressure since it's a mechanical injection.
I'll verify fuel pressure when my kit arrives. But if I assume the sensors are right, then it sounds like I need to check I'm getting signals to my injectors. The only problem I have there is they are buried under the intake manifold.
These are direct injection injectors. I know Paul doesn't talk much about them in his classes. I just remember him saying sometimes these GDIs can be controlled and powered by transistors inside the ECU here. And that seems to be the case here.
I would imagine the injectors are getting signals and power from the ECU especially with a new OEM ECU.
And for shiggles I checked the Park Neutral position and no change
It's got 90 psi in cylinder 5. So not completely dead.
I found some data pids for fuel pressure. Low side is 65 psi which is minimum pressure but in spec. High side is 1431 psi. I'm not really sure how the high pressure side is capable of generating any pressure since it's a mechanical injection.
I'll verify fuel pressure when my kit arrives. But if I assume the sensors are right, then it sounds like I need to check I'm getting signals to my injectors. The only problem I have there is they are buried under the intake manifold.
These are direct injection injectors. I know Paul doesn't talk much about them in his classes. I just remember him saying sometimes these GDIs can be controlled and powered by transistors inside the ECU here. And that seems to be the case here.
I would imagine the injectors are getting signals and power from the ECU especially with a new OEM ECU.
And for shiggles I checked the Park Neutral position and no change
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1 year 1 month ago #62999
by STIMECE
Replied by STIMECE on topic 2013 Infinity QX56 No Start
Hi Noah!! Keep up that great camera work!
It's got 90 psi in cylinder 5. So not completely dead.
I found some data pids for fuel pressure. Low side is 65 psi which is minimum pressure but in spec. High side is 1431 psi. I'm not really sure how the high pressure side is capable of generating any pressure since it's a mechanical injection.
I'll verify fuel pressure when my kit arrives. But if I assume the sensors are right, then it sounds like I need to check I'm getting signals to my injectors. The only problem I have there is they are buried under the intake manifold.
These are direct injection injectors. I know Paul doesn't talk much about them in his classes. I just remember him saying sometimes these GDIs can be controlled and powered by transistors inside the ECU here. And that seems to be the case here.
I would imagine the injectors are getting signals and power from the ECU especially with a new OEM ECU.
And for shiggles I checked the Park Neutral position and no change
It's got 90 psi in cylinder 5. So not completely dead.
I found some data pids for fuel pressure. Low side is 65 psi which is minimum pressure but in spec. High side is 1431 psi. I'm not really sure how the high pressure side is capable of generating any pressure since it's a mechanical injection.
I'll verify fuel pressure when my kit arrives. But if I assume the sensors are right, then it sounds like I need to check I'm getting signals to my injectors. The only problem I have there is they are buried under the intake manifold.
These are direct injection injectors. I know Paul doesn't talk much about them in his classes. I just remember him saying sometimes these GDIs can be controlled and powered by transistors inside the ECU here. And that seems to be the case here.
I would imagine the injectors are getting signals and power from the ECU especially with a new OEM ECU.
And for shiggles I checked the Park Neutral position and no change
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1 year 1 month ago #63000
by STIMECE
Replied by STIMECE on topic 2013 Infinity QX56 No Start
Now Im losing my mind.
The cadence in the engine has subsided. Out of no where. So I decided to test the compression on cylinder 5 and what do you know I have compression again. And the cadence of the engine sounds more even.
I don't even know how that's possible.
I have verified that I can see my data pids with key on engine off.
The cadence in the engine has subsided. Out of no where. So I decided to test the compression on cylinder 5 and what do you know I have compression again. And the cadence of the engine sounds more even.
I don't even know how that's possible.
I have verified that I can see my data pids with key on engine off.
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1 year 1 month ago #63070
by STIMECE
Replied by STIMECE on topic 2013 Infinity QX56 No Start
This car apparently has a fuel injector relay per all data. And the fuse cover calls is dig relay. And the wire colors for the fuel injector relay mag what is on the dig relay. But the pins are not in the same spot.
I'm lost for words here folks. What I find interesting is there is one white wire that goes off it and is shared with multiple other sensors and they go back to the power ply for ecm. And that voltage reading is 12v. There is another 12v source that checks out as well as the grounds.
Someone else looked at this before the dealership... surely someone didn't flip the pins on the relay....I know someone took it off because it wasn't fully seated.
I'm lost for words here folks. What I find interesting is there is one white wire that goes off it and is shared with multiple other sensors and they go back to the power ply for ecm. And that voltage reading is 12v. There is another 12v source that checks out as well as the grounds.
Someone else looked at this before the dealership... surely someone didn't flip the pins on the relay....I know someone took it off because it wasn't fully seated.
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1 year 1 month ago #63075
by STIMECE
Replied by STIMECE on topic 2013 Infinity QX56 No Start
Wires haven't been swapped I had the pins in my head backwards everything checks out on the fuel injector relay.
I'm running out of ideas here. The next thing would be to verify I have a signal going to the fuel injectors. But that would point back to the ECU being faulty again.
I'm running out of ideas here. The next thing would be to verify I have a signal going to the fuel injectors. But that would point back to the ECU being faulty again.
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1 year 1 month ago #63076
by Cheryl
Replied by Cheryl on topic 2013 Infinity QX56 No Start
You really need to verify timing of the engine. Do you have scope to check cam crank relationship? Or pressure transducer to see if spark is occurring near tdc? I’ve had a few infinity’s with the timing being off I still had spark no injection pulse
The following user(s) said Thank You: Noah
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1 year 1 month ago #63078
by STIMECE
Replied by STIMECE on topic 2013 Infinity QX56 No Start
Yes I just got my first scope in the mail yesterday. I need to a do a quick run down on how to use it before i start using it.
I am going to lose my mind if its not timing. lol
I am going to lose my mind if its not timing. lol
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