hard start, then stall on a vw gti 2.0T

hey guys i am working on a 2010 vw golf GTI 2.0T (direct injection/ MAF engine) dealing with a hard start then stall after 30 seconds of running

no codes available

history: cam and crank sensors replaced, turbo replaced and clutch also replaced (car has a long crank, then a hard start, then stall)

checks ive done: i double checked the work that was done and it looks like everything is in order, fuel pressure is good and consistent at 78 - 80 psi(low side) and on the high side is close to 600 -700 psi cranking.

i have scoped out the cam and crank signals using my Autel scope which I will attach a picture below

i dont have a source for a known good wave form for a cam crank correlation [attachment=11245]Screenshot 2022-06-18 110659.jpg

i just want to make sure im not dealing with a timing issue

this is under cranking condition with injectors unplugged

the pressure transducer(orange) and the ignition coil(green) are both for cylinder number one

Do you happen to know the engine code? No codes available means you can not pull codes or there are no codes reported? What is the absolute cranking pressure?

The exhaust cam looks pretty much advanced and probably only the intake cam features a cmp sensor... For that very reason there wouldn't be a DTC.

okay, so i did try to pull codes but there are no codes in the system related to timing correlation. i totally agree on that the timing is out, which makes sense to how you lined up the cursers

the overall in-cylinder pressure from the transducer is 180 psi=3.4V ish and is the same across all cylinders

now the only thing that worries me now is how would the timing be out of time if it was never touched on the vw, the cam and crank sensors were replaced, and the turbo and clutch.

any ideas of what could cause this would be awsome thanks

This is a 12 year old vehicle. The (main) chain tensioners of these early versions are known to be high failure rate parts. Around 2013 the tensioner design was changed and things improved (a little bit).

Then again, timing chain slack may be another factor after so many years of service. On GDI engines like this one proper oil change Intervalls are imperative to avoid problems. If not maintained semi-religiously timing problemas will result

would the vvt solenoid cause a similar issue is if stuck in a curtain position.

2 observations:

1)VVT on the exhaust side when activated typically will retard cam timing. Yours looks way to advanced.
2)The offset of your exhaust timing events look bigger than the usual adjustment range of a VVT system.

Okay i am also doing research and some say that the solenoid can get stuck and create the same conditions

Your explaination makes sense but Is there anyway you share the post with more people i really would like to hear more ideas

okay, i have checked for timing heres the pictures. what do you think.

i check the measurements for the time marks and they seem pretty on point. unless i am missing something

Are you sure that someone hasn't had that lower timing cover off recently? :huh: I dunno about you guys, but that looks like fresh RTV to me. Plus, no CCTA that I can remember is that dry. :lol:

If someone has been playing around with timing, then it's possible for the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley to line up and still be out of time (as strongly suggested by your in-cylinder waveform).

I'd suggest verifying your crankshaft pulley marks against actual TDC of the #1 piston.

we dropped the oil pan, and found metal sparkles. another tech put a screwdriver in the right spot and found some bad slack. so right now we are going to drop the timing covers and verify everything timing wise.

so we found bad chain wear marks on the gear sprockets it think you may be able to see in the pictures of the timing.

okay people we got a fix, i am super happy and i really appreciate everyone's help and contribution especially with the scope pattern break down.

we ended up taking the timing cover off and found the timing with the cams and the main chain gear was on the dot but we dug further and removed the timing chain with the main gear and well well well, the first thing we noticed was the crankshaft we behind 80 degrees from it was supposed to be. how that happen I am still working on finding that out. I have attached the before and after of the waveforms and a picture of the crankshaft right after I removed the main timing gear.

again thanks for everyone help